ISAF counterpart

Frances Townsend was Homeland Security Advisor for US President George W. Bush from 2004 to 2007. Previously she had been Deputy National Security Advisor for combating terrorism and served in various roles in the Justice Department.

Deutsche Welle: President Barack Obama will announce his plans for Afghanistan soon. What is your sense of what his decision might look like and what do you personally think should be done in Afghanistan?

Townsend: What the public debate has been mostly about is the number of troop levels. General McChrystal has asked for 40,000 troops in our understanding from his assessment. And frankly the President needs to give the commander on the ground the troops he requires and has asked for. That said, I think what we haven't talked about is equally if not more important than the troop levels. That is if you look at General McChrystal's assessment, he makes perfectly clear if he gets the 40,000 troops and he'll use those to clear and hold major population areas, if that doesn't come with civilian support, we'll still lose in Afghanistan.

What is required is foreign aid, non-governmental organisations, the state department's office of civilian reconstruction, it requires the proper resourcing and supervision of these programs to insure that we are getting to Afghanistan the sort of things that they need to bring governance, to reduce corruption.

After all, if we don't do that what happens is that the burden falls to US and international forces and we don't really want our soldiers, nor does NATO to build medical clinics and schools. We need adaquate supervision, that is someone who is an equivalent to General McChrystal for the entire US and international community both governmental and non-governmental to coordinate and oversee the delivery of aid to Afghanistan.

There is the expectation in Europe that it will be asked to do more in Afghanistan as well. What can the Europeans do within NATO to play an increasing role in Afghanistan?

Admiral Stavridis who is the Supreme Allied Commander of US forces in Europe is working with the military community of NATO to encourage additional troop committments. I think there are two things that we need to ask in terms of support from our NATO allies. One are troop levels. When we do that though, we need to acknowledge that when we look at NATO contributions in terms of forces as a percentage of overall population, I think the US comes in fifth. We have the largest drawn number of troops there, but in terms of percentage of our total overall population the US is only fifth. So we have to acknowledge the tremendous contribution of our NATO allies.

In fact when you look at casualties as a percentage of overall population, the US, I believe, is sixth and our NATO allies are in the top five places. A loss of life is tragic no matter what uniform you're wearing, so when we go and ask for additional military contributions not just as the US government, but as the American people we need to understand and acknowledge the tremendous contribution so far.

Our NATO allies have tremendous experience from places like Bosnia and Eastern Europe in terms of providing rule of law, advise to justice departments, drafting constitutions, building of police forces and training. We need that sort of committment as well from our NATO allies.

Read more about what the expectations are for Afghanistan

What is your hope and expectation of President Karzai? Is he capable of turning his government around and providing desperately needed basic services to his people after the recent election debacle further eroded his credibility?

President Karzai must do those things to turn things around and to remain in power. But I think we have to be careful. While this was a less than clean election, we have to careful about either undermining, criticising or ultimately humiliating him and then judging him for his performance. If we want him to be able to perform, he is now the president of Afghanistan, he is going forward, we must empower him and then support him in these efforts to root out corruption and to deliver services to the Afghan people.

But the time for maligning him and criticising him frankly has got to end. We have to stop that and permit him the space and the room to move forward. If he fails he will not simply fail NATO and his US allies, he is going to fail the Afghan people and he will be thrown out of office. The time for criticism is over and we now have to move forward in a positive way and judge him based on his performance.

An important factor in Europe concerning Afghanistan is the public's opposition against the military effort there. This trend in public opinion against the war in Afghanistan has recently also gained momentum in the US. How do you explain a new surge or an even increased international effort in Afghanistan to an ever increasingly skeptical public in Europe and the US?

This is the very reason that we do not either in Europe or in the United States conduct foreign policy (based) on public opinion polls. This is exactly the reason why we democratically elect leaders to make difficult public policy decisions that are in the country's best interest.

With all due respect, I think there is a misperception in the debate in Europe. This is not an American problem. Afghanistan is not simply an American threat. Look at the rise of illegal immigration from North Africa and from Islamic countries into Europe. Look at the public policy problems in education and health care that Europe is dealing with. Look at the travel between the expatriate communities from Muslim countries that are legally in Europe and they are travelling back where they can perhaps get training and be recruiting.

This is not just an American problem. Europe is going to have to come to grips that while this is both wildly unpopular in Europe and the United States, Afghanistan and our success or lack of success there poses a direct threat to the people of Europe.

Michael Knigge talked to Frances Townsend
Editor: Rob Mudge