"It's Still an Open Race"

DW-TV: The opinion polls are speaking right now a harsh language for your Green party and your coalition partner, the Social Democrats. Surveys show you are far behind and will probably not be in a position to form another government. Mr. Fischer, where do you get your motivation to keep going with the campaign?

Fischer: I don't need to motivate myself because I'm sure that these opinion polls will not reflect the eventual outcome on election night. The Germans will make their decisions in the last two or three weeks before the election. It's still an open race. And thanks to the conservative leader and her party, the mood is changing. I've never drawn such big crowds in eastern Germany, not even in the last election in 2002 when we won.

I'm really very surprised. The mood is changing, and we will change it. In 2002, some people also predicted we would lose, and as you can see: I'm an expert in surviving such predictions.

Does it make you angry that leading Social Democrats recently said that the red-green coalition was not a love match, but a mistimed alliance?

Well the chancellor cleared that up, and I know his position. We introduced reforms which should have been introduced by our predecessors in the 90s. We pursued a self-confident policy of peace.

Under Germany's EU presidency, we made important contributions to European unity. At the same time we faced great problems in the fight against unemployment, in achieving stronger economic growth, in reforming the pension and the health systems in the face of an ageing society.

All these are great challenges and we have to make Germany more competitive in an age of globalization. But we'll face up to these challenges as we have done in the past.

So, we are not behind the times. If anyone, it is rather Frau Merkel who is out of step. She says she wants to put Germany into forward gear to create more jobs, but in reality she has problems with the controls and has actually set the gears in reverse. She wants to go back to nuclear energy. Even Deutsche Bank is now criticizing her for that -- I've never heard of anything like that happening. Her idea of the future already belongs to the past.

Let's stay with the opinion polls and your present situation for a moment. In order to remain in power, red-green will need an additional partner. Who could that be? The new Left Party? Or do you want to take the Liberals on board?

No, you see, we're fighting for our majority to be renewed. It would never work with the Liberals or the Left Party. Gerhard Schröder and I used to sit round the same cabinet table with Oskar Lafontaine who is one of the leading candidates of the new Left Party. When things got tough and he was faced as finance minister with not being able to balance the 2000 budget, he left.

The Left party's other leading candidate, Gregor Gysi, threw in the towel after only a few months as economics minister in Berlin's regional government. Now, they are making empty promises. In Berlin's regional government, where the PDS shares power with the SPD, they are doing the opposite of what they promised. They cut so many jobs -- it makes you cry. Additional social benefits are being cut. A place in a daycare costs you up to some 300 euros a month. It's the opposite of what they are promising now.

Their promises can never be fulfilled. It's untrustworthy. And to top it, Oskar Lafontaine is reaching out to the far right. We have that kind of thing in other European countries. I find it awful; there are worlds between us in this respect.

Continue reading to find out about how Fischer views Germany's future foreign policy goals.

One of the main objectives of red-green foreign policy has been to get Germany a permanent seat on the UN Security Council. That has apparently failed because the US and China object. Was that a failure of German diplomacy?

No, not at all. Some people have accused us of bludgeoning tactics. But that's not the case. We didn't plug this issue. It was Kofi Annan who said after the Iraq war that the UN was indispensable, but needed to be reformed, which started the reform debate.

If Germany had said: no, we won't take part, it would have meant that one of the main pillars of the UN would have been saying we're not interested in reform -- even though the previous German government had supported the idea. So, we couldn't have done that. That's why we have to stick with it. I don't agree that the idea has failed. It will take more time than some people thought, but it has not failed. A reform of the UN is indispensable if we want peace and stability.

And it will be the US which will profit most from an effective UN.

You are a passionate advocate of Turkish EU membership. But do most Germans share your view? One of the crises of the EU is that many people say: it's all going too fast, and every enlargement is only increasing competition in the labor market.

Look, political responsibility involves having the strength to stand up for one's convictions, even when people may disagree, and trying to persuade them of what you consider to be right. We want security and peace.

Turkey is very close to those regions which pose dangers to our security. Nobody is saying that Turkey will become an EU member very quickly or automatically. We'll have to decide when Turkey is in a position to become part of Europe, and that may be in 10 or 20 years.

But it's in our interest to pave the way. It's for our security, and that's what I'm trying to explain to people. It's in keeping with my experience in foreign policy. The threat is not posed by tank armies in the east anymore, but by terrorism and the nuclear armament race. The dangers originate in that very region, and the decisive question for us is whether Islam, human rights, women's rights, democracy, the rule of law, -- whether Islam, civil society and a market economy can go together.

When you look back at your seven years as Germany's foreign minister, what's your verdict?

It was a time when the old world order had come to an end and new turbulences were felt. The Kosovo war began even before I could take up my post. And just when we thought we had contained violence on the Balkans and were preparing for a new future, there was 9/11. Nothing has been the same since then.

The Iraq crisis is lingering on, and Europe has weakened itself because France and the Netherlands said 'No' to the European constitution in their referenda.

I think it's necessary to carry on with the enlargement process even though I know that many people are worried. But a buffer zone in Europe between Russia and the EU is risky.

The aim of the constitution was to strengthen the cohesive power of Brussels. We're in a difficult situation now, with dark clouds looming. The next few years won't be easy, and that's why I'm fighting to win so that the chancellor and I can continue our responsible foreign policy as a self-confident policy of peace.

And will you stay in politics even if you lose this general election?

Yes, I'm standing for a seat in parliament, and I will take that up whatever happens. But I'm not fighting to end up in opposition, but to keep our majority. I want us to continue to govern this country.

Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer, leading candidate of the Green party, thank you very much.

DW-TV's Christian F. Trippe interviewed Joschka Fischer